CBS 21 Community

Hello Chainsaw, but I will have to disagree with you on a memorial along side of the road, that is why cemetaries were created long before any of us were born..

Yeah, that is what cemetaries are for. One porblem, Mikey doesn't have a grave site. The owner of the land has no right to rip down a cross that is on township property, which he still considers his yard. I know, MANY people put their hearts into that cross, and one conceited person goes and rips it down because it "reminds him"..boohoo. We have to live without Mikey. The only place to visit and talk to him is where he was pronounced dead. Yeah, this guy may have been first on scene, and he's terrified because of what he saw..what about the shock that friends and family went through when we heard of the news. If any one of you's would happen to lose a family member on or near  my yard, yeah, I'd be traumatized, but I would HELP to plant a cross or any type of roadside memorial. It's not like he actually knew the family or Mikey, himself, so for him to rip it down is straight ignorance. Yeah, he's gotta drive past there and see a cross in his yard. So what? I have to drive by there and know thats where a close friend of mine passed. Yeah, I like to stop and sit there for a while. I like to think "since this is where Mikey died, his spirit rests here." I think people need to consider a greiving family and greiving friends.

If any one of you knew Mikey Labe, he would have touched each one of you the way he did to all of us. You would agree, garaunteed, any person that was at his funeral would. So please, understand, the roadside memorial IS NOT to tourment or remind the landowner of the things he saw that night, but for everyone else to have a place to go at 2AM. Out of respect for Mikey and his family, the roadside memorial should be placed and NEVER taken down, or damaged.

Kylie Jo:

Yeah, that is what cemetaries are for. One porblem, Mikey doesn't have a grave site. The owner of the land has no right to rip down a cross that is on township property, ...

... the roadside memorial IS NOT to tourment or remind the landowner of the things he saw that night, but for everyone else to have a place to go at 2AM.

EXCUSE ME!!!???
EXCUSE ME!!!???
This guy's lawn is a "place to go at 2AM"??
Surely you are joking.
It's not nice to joke after such a tragedy.

But if you aren't joking, the (proverbial) gloves are coming off.
And long live the Darwin Awards.

I just one everyone to read Ducky's comments.   They are well versed.  we all can learn from them

First of all buy a dictionary or use spellcheck! Second to all the people who live in Swatara township,if this cross stays up all of your property values will diminish. Thus decreasing the tax base.Which will your taxes go up to compensate.The world will see that your goverment does not support the tax payers.That anyone entering you township can do anything they want to your property.

Why would you want to force someone else to menorlize you son on their property.

I ask you when does the diplomacy begin? I repeat this can be all of you call your supervisors today!!!!!!!!!!!! This has nothing with someones death,but everything to do with a taxpayers rights.Think supervisors about this decision.

This isn't a chicken Bar-b-que on the Fourth of July.This will be a permanent memorial to death. Death belongs in a cemetary. This property is zoned residental not comercial.

Kylie jo,

 

First and foremost, I am puzzled as to how he does not have a grave site?  Was he creamated, and the ashes kept in the home?  Also, are you saying that because a family chooses not to bury a person in a cemetary that the municipal government is responsible for providing a site to memorialize him?  Why would anyone spend the money to bury the dead if this is so?  We can just have our loved ones memorialized, free of charge, on the side of a road at taxpayers expense.

Second of all and more important is that you understand the difference between township property and a public right of way.   It is still the landowners peoperty, not the township's.  A right of way is an area of land on private property that the municipality declares to be open to public access for a specific purpose.  Just like sidewalks in front of a house.  The sidewalk is private property, but the landowner can not block public access to it.  This is because it is not safe to walk in the street, so the municipality states that you can not be guilty of tresspassing for walking there.  As for other uses, a permit request, and zoning hearing is exactly what needs to be done here. 

I can't say this enough times.  While I am sorry for the loss of this boy, it does not entitle the family to a free parcel land somewhere.   We all die.  If we all were given a free piece of land just because we died, there  would be no land left for the living!

KJ, no we don't have to consider a grieving family and friends, we have to consider the long reaching consequences of this action.

As for you sittiing in a stranger's front lawn at 2am, there is something very wrong with that, kid.  This is the other big problem here.  This board and much of this issue are being dominated by the opinions of children.  It don't say this to be mean or cruel, I say it because land use is an issue that really can't be comprehended by children, hence the fact that Chidren don't own land. 

The township has made a decison, now its time for level headed adults to have a final say in this matter.

Wintercola,

The reality of this is that you are correct.  This would set a precedent in Swatara township that could have LONG reaching reprocussions.  I said this in a post that was removed, but if the Labe's are allowed to build a permanant structure on private property against the property owners wishes, it then allows anyone to place anything on the public right of way without permission.

Think about that.  Every campaign sign, every advertisement for $10/hr summer jobs, every BBQ and craft fair could then be placed on YOUR property without anyone asking.  This stared off being a simple little issue about a cross that never should have been made, but it has turned into a nightmare for the township and its taxpayers.

satanhimself wrote:

Robo, are you saying that you live in Swatara?
If so, this is interesting.
While I don't really want anyone to get hurt, if there has to be a "next" fatality, I hope it's a Satanist,
so that we can go construct a "small breakaway" statue of Lucifer on someone's front lawn!

And then, when someone removes it, we can apply for a permit to construct a permanent statue.
What do you think our chances of getting that permit would be?
I'd say, no chance in "hell"!  [note to moderator, that term is an integral part of this discussion, as it relates to the point being made]

SH,

No, I live on the West shore, but for the most part municipal law is the same all over.  The thing is this sort of a precedent could be argued anywhere(before someone says its none of my bus. if I don't live there).

LoL about the "lucifer" statue.  That would certainly raise an eyebrow or two.  What about a minaret to glorify Allah?  What about a magik circle for a fallen wiccan?

I think the township will "code" this issue to death.  In so much as the required base for this monster will be extrememly costly.  You can't just plop a 6' tall pile of 2X6s in the ground and expect it to stay.  The excavation and foundation work will cost hundreds of dollars.  The permits could cost a few hundred, depending on the scope.  I can't see how the original cross would work, based on the pictures from WHP's website.  There is nothing to attach it to the concrete foundation.  Also, is it Pressure treated lumber?  If not, will there be a maintinence requirement?  Once this cross weathers for a year, and looks like a disgrace, will the landowner be responsible for its maininence?

 

My other big issue with this is the lawsuit factor.  If they place this cross up, and it falls and causes an accident, as it is on private property, the landowner that does not wat it there to begin with will be liable for damages.  At best, the liabilty falls on the township and the TAXPAYERS. Yeah, that's right, not the family that placed it there, but the landowner or the twp. So if the landowner's homeowners insurance decides to drop his coverage because they can't cover that risk, or they raise his rates to a point he can't afford, who takes care of him? 

My advice to the landowner is this, call your Homeower's Insurance company, let them know what is going on and lets see what happens then.  No one likes to mess with Insurance company lawyers.

I would just like to say if its okay with 21 news is that the family does not have enough money for a burial site I will be more than happy to help with the money to make it happen, I myself would be more than glad if I was in the same position but I still do not know what that is? You keep saying he does not have a burial site and I would like to know where he is then? where is he? he is certainly not buried where he crashed his car I know, please explain, my address is bob1fire@hotmail.com, I just find these comments confusing. thanks very much if you want to answer.

this is what i think on the whole ordeal.. you lose someone that is very close to you and your shattered. but the others who don't know this person are like so what...no it don't work that way.. for a family and friends to have a memorial is like a sense of closer for them. and to take that away is like taking milk from a baby... and when you do that it takes a part of them away... that is what i think of the whole situation i think there should be roadside memorials

Andrew Smith
Perdix Pa

Okay, so lets see, JUST IN CASE YOU HAVENT NOTICED, WHERE THE MEMORIAL GOES UP ISN'T REALLY A "front lawn" it is a bank..on a curve.(look at the picture) Level headed adults my ass.  Half these people should be put into mental institutions. And that is the case. He was cremated. And No, thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying that people need to grow up and get over themselves, give some people a little respect. And I do understand the township property and right-of-way..

So I guess all of you's disagreeing are telling me that if your child, or even parent, were to die in a horrible accident, you wouldn't want to put up a cross. ITS WOOD FOR CHRIST'S SAKE. I guess its a crime to grow trees now too, huh??

I am Mikey's aunt and have stayed out of this hoopla as much as possible, correct  there is no gravesite, he was cremated.  There was no money from the auto insurance as none of the policies had funeral benefits.  To keep costs down the decision by the family was cremation, Mikey was able to be a tissue donor, so 2 people will be able to see, burn victims will receive skin grafts, heart pts will get his valves, and cancer pts will receive precious bone. To have to make the decision to cremate your loved one is very hard but with funeral homes asking for thousands of dollars upfront that just was not possible.  We were not looking for controversy when this whole thing started we were looking for a place for his friends to honor him, this was their decision they made the cross his friends signed at his funeral through tears. While I understand the homeowners position I am saddened at how it all came about.  We have found out that the homeowner is connected to the township somehow and that is how this is being turned around.  My sister did go through all the channels, the township was to notify the homeowner, not my sister.  They the township) were present when they put up the first cross and supported them, the fire dept shut down the road.  It was to help the family and kids heal….. They have since placed the cross at their home and plan to put a smaller cross across the road on another homeowners property with their permission.  I think this has gotten out of hand it is not about who is right and wrong it is about grief and respecting each other.  When you are in the midst of grief, decisions are hard to make.  So please do not judge them.  We did start a memorial fund at the Lebanon Federal Credit Union to help pay for the funeral expenses even with cremation it is pricey.